July 4, 2004

Part 1 of a series on WPA writing projects

The WPA and Labor

By Michael Ulreich
President, Chicago Newspaper Guild

While it’s well known, at least in Chicago, that in the 1930s the Works Progress Administration (WPA) financed the commission of a series of well-regarded murals in Chicago that are still prominently displayed in Chicago public schools, less is known about the writing projects also financed by the WPA.

Lane Tech High School, where my daughter goes to school, is the repository of dozens of these WPA murals, some of which line the halls, others adorn the library and still others decorate the cafeteria. A book called Art For the People by Heather Becker collected photos of many of the 440 murals produced in the Chicago Public Schools between 1904 and 1943 and tells the story of their long-due restoration. These treasures today stand not only as art but as history, the product of a significant time in U.S. history when the government financed the arts as a policy decision to help its people survive the Depression. Looking at these murals and pondering the attention they’ve received I started to wonder what had become of all the manuscripts that were collected as part of the WPA Writer’s Project, writing as art as well as history.

Starting today and continuing well on into the future, the Chicago Newspaper Guild web site will reproduce many of these tracts from the WPA Writers Project from that day gone by.

Lane Tech High School mural depicting explorers

It’s interesting in these days when the news is tightly controlled by large global, and many times unethical, media organizations, to look back at some of the journalism that was done back in what we consider today to be a simpler time, the days when hoboes rode the rails, John Dillinger terrorized the Midwest and you could see one of the new “talkies” for a nickel.

The WPA was created during the administration of Franklin Roosevelt to provide work for the unemployed and destitute yet Americans ravaged by the Great Depression. Of course Roosevelt’s New Deal was considered as nothing less than revolutionary in some circles and was reviled as near-Communism in others. (“I wouldn’t plow nobody’s mule from sunrise to sunset for 50 cents a day,” wrote one Georgia farmer in a letter that eventually reached Roosevelt from the state governor, “when I could get $1.30 for pretending to work on a DITCH.” Roosevelt replied: “I take it, from your sending the letter of the gentleman from Smithville to me that you approve of paying farm labor 40 to 50 cents per day.”)

Project writers for the WPA in the 1930s mainly collected first-person narratives, some 10,000 of them, on subjects ranging from taverns to superstitions, from ethnic studies to travel writing. Many of these were collected in 1985 by Ann Banks in her book First-Person America.

According to Banks, the Writers Project employed some 6500 writers in the latter stages of the Depression, which began in 1929 and peaked in 1933. The Project and its mostly left-wing writers eventually drew criticism in the late 1930s from the House Un-American Activities Committee and the project effectively ended with the beginning of World War II. Some of the work was published in anthologies, the most famous of which was a collection of oral histories made by former Negro slaves called Lay My Burden Down: A Folk History of Slavery, published in Chicago in 1945.

Egyptian workers is the subject of this Lane Tech mural

“We’re a hundred thousand kids who never saw a play before,” said one of those involved with the WPA Federal Theater Project. “We’re students in colleges, housewives in the Bronx, lumberjacks in Oregon, sharecroppers in Georgia…We’re the Caravan Theater in the parks, Shakespeare on a hillside, Gilbert and Sullivan on a lagoon, the circus under canvas, Toller on a truck…We’re the Living Newspaper; we’re the Negro theater, the Yiddish theater, and theaters throughout America playing not only in English but in French, German, Italian and Spanish; we’re the file, we’re the record, we’re theater history.”

These snippets of a day gone by offer an interesting look into the concerns of the day and the state of journalism as practiced during the Depression more than 70 years ago.

Of course you’d have to classify the WPA output as journalism and I don’t know if Robert Davis considered himself a journalist when he dug into the marvelous story of the new Negro labor leaders of his day. But I’m sure he felt he was documenting, to the best of his ability, the state of the times and isn’t that what defines a journalist?

When you read the pieces that describe labor history in the 1930s a number of emotions arise: nostalgia for the day when the labor movement was comparatively young and in its heyday and a strange sense of déjà vu, that many of the same problems and satisfactions that these writers uncovered in the labor movement 80 years ago still remain true today.

W.S. Townsend, International President of the Brotherhood of Red Caps, fighting in the 1930s for potential dues-paying members with the Pullman Porters union, says “There’s something about the labor movement that gets you—like dope.” But that was certainly not true of every working man and woman in the union, just the leadership. Townsend found himself and another man served the union as “president, vice-president, secretary, office girls and what have you.” But he also found that as president, as a union officer, he had a responsibility to provide able and informed leadership for his members. “Our great fight in this organization has been to get members to study labor law and history,” Townsend said. “I feel that if we are ever to have intelligent leadership, we must study and prepare to give intelligent leadership.”

You will note other funny anecdotes of a time gone by, Townsend typing out letters by hand on a typewriter, writers referring to the World’s War, now known to us as World War I, in the days before there was a Second.

I think it’s a public service to reprint these items, to bring the work of those somewhat anonymous writers of the past onto a Web page of the future.

We’ll start with an interview by that Robert Davis did on Aug. 25, 1937 with Ernest Calloway, a general organizer for the Brotherhood of Red Caps, on the general subject of The Negro in Organized Labor, Chicago area. This interview sets up the second with W. Townsend, president of the Brotherhood of Red Caps and ends with an interview with a steelworker who felt no need to join a union, although the union paved the way for more money and greater respect.

From the work of Robert Davis: “Mr. Calloway is a young man, 29-years-old, about 5 ft. 9 in. in heights, weighing around 155 lbs. He had black wavy hair complimenting his olive skin. He is very quiet and reserved, speaking seldom. After listening to an explanation of the type of information desired in the interview he gave the following facts without interruption:

“I was born in Fayette County, W.Va., Jan. 1, 1906, of working-class parents. My father was a coal-miner. When the coal fields were opened in Sandy Valley, we moved there. I went to school there, such as it was, you know—one-room schools, housing all the grades. I was there until 1920, when I went to Lynchburg, Va., to go to school there while living with an aunt. In 1920, in my senior years (H.S.) I ran away to New York where I got a job as a pantry boy on a boat. I held this job for about 8 months. The work was too hard, so I came back to Jenkins, Ky., and finally convinced the “powers-that-be” that I could teach school. I taught for 3 months—then they discovered that I was not capable of teaching the 4^th, 5^th and 6^th grades. In 1929 I went to the mines. I got mixed up in the usual drinking-gambling bouts plus certain troubles with women. Then the depression hit the coat industry. In fact before 1929 the industry was affected by the imminent depression. From ‘26 to ‘29, miners made an average of 40cents per ton but after ‘29, we could only get about 21 cents per ton. The hours were long and certainly the work was hard. In 1929 I was blacklisted for union activities. During the “honeymoon” of the NRA everything was being organized, conditions were not any better because the union (U.M.W.A.) was unable to get agreements with the companies. I became what is known as an “agitator.” When I was blacklisted, it was hard for me to get a job in the mines. Then, too, I had been active in trying to form a branch of the NAACP to protest the lynching of a Negro who had beaten a policeman who had died later. I came into contact with too many petty Negro politicians who were afraid to bring pressure to bear where it would have been effective. Finally I dropped my activities in this direction. As a result of it, however, Elmer Carter of Opportunity magazine and the Nat’L. Urban League asked me to write an article on the condition of the Negro in the Kentucky coal fields since the NRA. This was published in March 1934.

You ask about the period between ‘29 and ‘34. Well, I hitchhiked and hoboed all over the country. I went south, then to New York, Chicago, Denver, California. In California I became interested in unemployed groups. In fact I got a real interest in the labor movement. I was active in the Upton Sinclair movement. I registered in the Democratic party in Los Angeles and became active with the “California Eagle,” a democratic newspaper. I wrote political articles. I received no pay. I lived on odd jobs and gratuities. This was disgusting so I went to Mexico, using the same (hobo) style of travel. I had an unusual experience on my way there. I got east in the mountains of Mexico for several days, I can tell you, I was very glad when a Mexican mountain traveler led me out of the wilderness! I made it as far as Ensenada where I tried to stowaway on a boat. This attempt failed so I hitch-hiked back to Louisville, Ky., and back to the Kentucky coal fields.

Upon a recommendation of a person in the Nat’l Urban League, Tucker Smith, director of Brookwood Labor College, offered me a scholarship. I went to Brookwood for a year. Then I went on a tour for 4 months with the Brookwood Players. After the tour I went to W.Va., where Bernstein of the U.M.W.A. and I organized about 14 locals throughout the state of West Virginia. I was made a member of the Executive Bd., and Educational Director. I was active at the Washington Convention of the Workers Alliance in 1936. I was also a member of the constitution committee and was posed as a member of the Nat’l Exec. Bd. But Ed. Parker of Chicago won the election.

Three months later I decided to make an attempt to attend this institute on racial relations. Of course there was the usual problem of money. I went to New York to contact Francis Henson. While there Lester Granger of the Urban League told me that he had recommended two Negroes to the S.W.O.C. and that I was one of them. We contacted Phyllis Murray and were asked to come to Pittsburgh. I went to Pittsburgh and stayed 10 days, conferring with Murray who sent me to Clint Golden who was in charge of the Northwestern area. They told me that they were doing little independent organizing (they were concentrating on wiping out company unions) but that when they did start they would get in touch with me. I discovered later that certain individuals in the Nat’L. Negro Congress in Washington had sabotaged the move to take me on as an organizer, I prefer not to call any names. And so, back to the coal fields in W. Va. In 1936 I was in the Mingo County area and didn’t get a job but I did write many articles for the Crisis and certain white newspapers.

In June of ’37 I went to New York for a few weeks then I came to Chicago where I was recommended to the Brotherhood of Red Caps by a chance acquaintance. I really came to Chicago to get a job in an auto parts factory. This wasn’t successful. Now I am staying with friends on Cleveland Avenue. I receive my expenses from the brotherhood and expect to receive a salary later on. I like the work very much and have great hopes for their organization.

If you are interested in my reaction to the C.I.O. read the Nov. ’36 issue of Opportunity in which you will find an article written by me on The C.I.O. and the Negro.

Mr. Calloway promised to give me whatever information he could at such times as there are any new developments in the organization of redcaps.

Interview with W.S. Townsend, International Pres., Brotherhood of Red Caps

Mr. Townsend is a tall, heavy set, light brown skinned man of about 42 years of age. He has a catching smile and a pleasant voice. His manner was quite friendly. He seemed to welcome an opportunity to talk about the Brotherhood of Red Caps, interrupting his typing of letters to do so. His office is located in the dining room of his home, which is furnished with a beautiful suite of furniture. There is a large filing cabinet and a typewriter which he stated was all they needed to carry on their business at present.

His home is quite comfortable, having 7 or 8 rooms. The lower floor is furnished with comfortable modern furniture, expensive in appearance, yet unostentatious.

Mr. Townsend is married and has a son who is three and a half years old. His mother lives with him. His wife is about 29 years of age and is a very pretty woman who appears to be most interested in her husband’s activities. He was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, attended the public schools there, grammar and high school. He went to the University of Toronto, Canada, for one year and the Royal College of Sciences, Toronto for 2 years. He stated, “I started out to be an eminent bacteriologist, but wound up as a perfectly good Red Cap.” He is a member of the Omega Psi Phi fraternity, serving 4 years as field secretary and 10 years as its local treasurer. “I held these offices concurrently.” He served in the World’s War as a 1^st Lieut. of the 372^nd Infantry, also serving in the Ohio Nat’l Guard as a 1^st Lieut.

“I have been married seven years. My wife is a Cincinnati girl, who has had a high school education. My son is 3 ½ years old. I have been a captain of Red Caps at the Northwestern station for 4 years. No more bacteriology for me. There’s something that gets you about the labor movement—like dope. I plan to enter one of the labor colleges this fall. Our great fight in this organization has been toget members to study labor law and history. I feel that if we are ever to have intelligent leadership, we must study and prepare to give intelligent leadership.”|

“I have read everything about labor that I could get my hands on. When we went to see Paul Douglas about 2 months ago, he dubbed us as authorities and told us that we knew more about red caps than he knew about them. He was pleasantly surprised to find that we knew what we were about and gave us some excellent advice and leads. We’ve read everything concerning labor. I made a trip to Cleveland to address the Red Cap Local there, and I knew they expected things from me, and as president, I feel that I of all persons must know my labor movement. I saw Gould (Howard) yesterday. I know that he is disliked but he has been very useful to us. It was he who made our contact with Douglas, through whom we enlisted Leon Dupres as our general counsel. When asked about the Bro. Of Slpg. Car Porters, Mr. Townsend said “my reaction to Randolph (A. Phillip) is that he is a splendid and intelligent leader, but doesn’t place himself with the labor group.” I heard him at DuSable (a high school on the south side). His “Back Bay’ speech draws him away from the laboring group rather than identified him with it. “Webster (Milton R.) preaches at every opportunity that Randolph was never a Pullman Porter. I consider this a serious mistake in technique. Leaders must make their followers feel that he is one of them. When I interviewed Randolph, he wouldn’t open up. He was taciturn. I think he resented my attempts to organize the Red Caps. He hopes to become the John L. Lewis of Negro Labor. It’s unfair to fight us as they have done. One thing that I can’t appreciate in Randolph is their attempt to misrepresent us during our organizational drive. You will find men who grasp for power regardless of their qualifications. It is that type which hampers other leaders. I guess it’s psychological to resent men on a pinnacle. The brotherhood refused to go along with us. I believe they stopped our getting an international charter from the A.F. of L.

(Reading the accounts of M. Townsend from the Brotherhood of the Red Caps in 1939 makes one feel the pride he took in being a labor leader and the responsibilities he felt he had as a labor leader . MU)

At this point, Mr. Townsend was asked for concrete evidence supporting his claim that the BSCP had stopped their getting a charter. He asked Mr. Winchester, Int. Sec’y (interviewed earlier) to get the Chicago file from which he took several letters and telegrams which will be included in this report in a separate section.

“Early in our organizational drive we called on Webster (regional VP BSCP) to discuss the situation. At first, in an abundance of superlatives he thought it was a fine thing. He sent for his secretary to get a letter from the file which had been sent to him from Washington, D.C. I, too, had received a letter asking about Mr. Moore. Webster showed me the letter. He said, “You see, they all count on me. I may be too suspicious but still he didn’t seem anxious for us to know what he had written in reply. I feel that if Webster had been in line he’d have read his reply. Soon after this, all correspondence with DC stopped. I feel that Webster was responsible.

Mr. Townsend showed a telegram from Memphis, Tenn., sent by J.L. Yancey, stating that Randolph was conducting a campaign against the Red Caps International, in Cincinnati and the southern cities to “Hands off.” The telegram further stated that the red caps were confused by false information and advised contacting Barnett of the associated Negro press.

Fast on the heels of this telegram, Webster told certain people that we were not bonafide, that we were a “fly-by-night” organization, conducting a racket. Webster doesn’t recognize the fact that embodied in a group of red caps is more intelligence than in porters. He feels that he can deal with them in the same fashion as that they use in dealing with porters. We have members with master’s degrees and up until last year we had a man who had his LL degree—from Harvard.

Here Mr. Calloway, a graduate of Brookwood Labor College and Gen’l. Organizer for Red Caps International, stated: “The Red Caps have a different fight from the porters. How can Randolph deal with us? We must deal with the railroads separately, not as they deal with them in the case of the porters.”

Mr. Townsend, continued, “Shortly after we set up our organization we met with the Railway Clerks organizers to ascertain the A.F. of L’s confining us to the jurisdiction of the Railway Clerks when that group prohibited Negro membership. That was the beginning of our suspicion. We made immediate efforts to pull away from the Railway clerks and each time Green (William, A F of L Pres.)said we were incapable of carrying on our own affairs. He told us to operate under the Federal Charter. I feel that all he was interested in was the 75 cents. I sent Green several letters. I’m sorry I can’t show them to you now. I sent them to Cleveland to be used as evidence to show what transpired during our time in the A.F. of L. These letters are now in New York where an investigation is being conducted. We have no regional director there, but we do have Caruthers acting for us. He is doing a fair job. Our only salvation is our independent organization. We were not expelled from the A.F. of L. We merely refused to pay any more dues, thus we automatically dropped out.

In December, Daniels, a Detroit Red Cap, wrote asking for details necessary to organize red caps there, stating that they wished to organize as soon as possible. He sent the letter to the B. & O. Station where there are white Red Caps, but they sent it on to me at Northwestern. On Jan. 8^th I answered telling him the steps to take, outlining the grievances which were to be submitted to the Board of Mediation.

I explained that a charter would be $22.50. Dues 35cents. I also told him that I preferred a personal contact. I wrote the same type of letter to the local president here. He went to Smith, third vice president, in Detroit, of the Bro. Slpg. Car Porters with my correspondence. On March 14, I wrote again because I had received no reply from Detroit. I received a letter telling me that they had made rapid studies, that they were looking to Chicago, since it is a railroad center and was the natural nucleus for such an organization. After several weeks he wrote stating that he hadn’t decided what to do, but would let me know. This letter was so tame and so different from the previous letters that we naturally felt that something had gone wrong. Our regional director found that Smith (BSCP) was putting pressure on Daniels, using his “fly-by-night” and “racket” scare.

The irony of the situation is that we had some 10,000 circulars printed which were divided into 25 lots which we gave to Pullman Porters to drop off at terminals. They were very accommodating and not only dropped them off, but wherever possible urged the Red Caps to read them. That’s how we contacted the Red Caps throughout the country.

I am now working on a Red Cap publication, “Bags and Baggage.” We need a monthly publication. I drafted the dummy one night and went to talk with the president of the Harrison Hotel Co., one time Pres. of the Hotel Ass’n. It was he who donated the banquet hall for our convention, May 17-18. He told me that the dummy was valuable. He said, “I would but space it in immediately. If I support it, it might increase my guest list 40%. He went so far as to offer financial assistance. I wouldn’t accept. I’ll hold it and finance it myself if it’s worth that much in his estimation. Unfortunately, Winchester and I were the only ones working on it at present..

I have to work. The union and my family responsibilities don’t permit my doing much on it at present. I hope to have it ready for publication by Sept. 1^st. I was advised that I could take it to the Baron G. Collier advertising firm.

I haven’t gone yet because I intend to find out what advertising sales are for “big business,” so much to do and so little time in which to do it. With all the intelligent men we have in the service, we should leap ahead, but they are so hard to interest. Winchester and I are president, vice-president, secretary, office girls and what have you. We are desirous of having intelligent leadership, properly trained, and willing to sacrifice for the success of the Negro labor movement. We need to remove men like Levit Kelly, (interviewed previously) from the labor scene. I know Kelly. He’s unscrupulous. If some conscientious man could take over his group now, it would be wonderful.

15 years ago I knew him as St. Louis Kelly. He was editing a newspaper, whose real editor was Perry Thompson, a Fisk graduate. I met Kelly and thought him quite ruthless. He’s a schemer who has gone places, but I think he’s on the way out. Labor is demanding intelligent, honest leaders.

I find at our union meetings that I must lie just a little. I hate to lie, but it is necessary to take a small development and make it glow and elaborate upon it to make it beautiful. The men want that type of thing. In order to instill an appreciation of the union, it is necessary to make them feel that you are doing wonders. I enlarge upon small incidents and they enjoy it. I try to be careful not to betray their confidence in me. I feel that elaboration is necessary in this field.

One member assailed me at a meeting one night, telling me that I was not conducting the meeting according to Robert’s Rule of Order, I admitted it, but told him that this was a labor movement, pure and simply, necessitating simplification of routine. I assured him that if I were out with James Weldon Johnson, or certain others of that type of person, I could hold my own.

I haven’t received dime “one’ for my troubles and time with this organization, but something keeps me pushing, pushing, pushing. Every year, the railroad company has hired men promiscuously. This year they tried the same thing, I wrote to the director of Personnel telling him about this procedure. He must have written about it. My boss was called in and told to stop indiscriminate hiring. I had to be careful not to antagonize the “powers-that-be,” that is, until we’re solidly organized. We might even consider going on strike then!

Most employers of Negro labor concur with Van Nest, the author who defined the Negro as an inhabitant of Central and Southern Africa, who would always, in his opinion, be a hewer of wood, and a drawer of water. This has been borne out in my experiences with railroad officials. When I went to talk with the Vice President of the Chicago and Northwestern, he was surprised when I told him the number of college men in the service. When I asked $75.00 a month for Red Caps plus their tips, he was indignant. He told me that he only paid his white stenographer, whom was a man, $100.00 per month. I pointed out that this stenographer had a chance to advance, even to the presidency of the company, but the Red Cap would not advance. I cited figures on the company income for 1936, which was $36,000,000 and for 1937 which was $81,000,000. He seemed surprised that I had availed myself of this information. I told him that $40,000 was a small sum to allocate for Red Cap salaries. He replied that I was careless about asking for such large sums of money. I told him that in comparison with $81,000,000, the sum I ask was miserly.

 Here Mr. Townsend asked for suggestions on ways to interest the membership in trade union methods. It was suggested that they attend various sessions of Workers conferences.

 “Fortunately and unfortunately we have followers, but no prospective leaders. The men pay dues but only a few assure the responsibility of the burden of the organization. They have so little ability to evaluate certain developments. For instance at Illinois Central, Sandy Trice, an old Red Cap, has headed up a Boasters’ Club which is really a company union. He has coerced and intimidated these men until we had thought seriously of bringing charges against him. We cannot do so until we have established our status as employees. Technically the “Boasters’ is not a company union, but it works to the same ends in stunting our activities in that station.”

 It has been suggested to Mr. Townsend that social affairs be given as a nucleus around which interest might be built. Mr. Townsend pointed out that it was his personal reaction, that the social aspect in the labor movements was not a good idea.

 “I’ve been around with Golbots and Fitzpatrick of the Chicago Federation of Labor. They are opposed to the social aspect and I agree with them. The Negro has too much of it as it is. We need to concentrate on something else. I doubt the practicality of any attempt to build the Red Caps consciousness to the point where they can appreciate the relation of social affairs to their work. I tried sports as a medium of building interest, I had a basketball and a baseball team. They just don’t pan out. Out and out union activity has the best results.”

 Asked about the possibility of affiliating to the CIO, Mr. Townsend said, “We had one sad experience with the A.F. of L. We will be very cautious about affiliating to any other organization. The CIO is a fine organization, but at present, we can’t afford any further assessment, and we do feel that the independent union is our best bet, at least until the CIO enters the railroad field. We have another plan afoot that will entail extra expenditures. I have been receiving information concerning a New York Insurance Company which offers $6.00 a week sick benefits and $500.00 death benefits for 99 cents a month. Our dues are now $1.00, of which the International keeps 35 cents, the local, 65 cents. We hope to add 50 cents in order to include this insurance. I think it good psychology. The Red Cap will receive something concrete and the prospects of such benefits will make them stick together. You see, we have difficulty in getting our members to pay dues regularly, even after we have rendered them valuable services.

 Mr. Winchester has probably told you of the man who was assigned from all night duty (12 hrs.) to 2 a.m. (8hrs). He is very delinquent about paying dues, although he professed extreme gratitude for our aid. We have another young man who was once a social service worker. His wife is a social service worker and one of them had to give up (during the relief slashing) so he came to us in May 1936. Last fall there was a move to cut off 5 Red Caps. I was called in and asked how we could stop these firings. I protested to the superintendent. He told me to see Bell (a captain) and tell him to put the boy back to work. He said he’d work with us. He was elected vice-president at No. Western Federal Union. Later he claimed that the union work interfered with his earning power and he sent in his resignation. You see how quickly he forgot what we had done for him.

 Then there is Earl Foster, son of Rube Foster, who has been with us for 2 years. He won’t pay dues, yet he’s able to go to all of the night clubs and bright spots. That’s the type of thing we have to put up with. We have problems within and without the organization. We are in a difficult position. We are not recognized employees of the railroad company. If they should fire us wholesale, we’d have no redress. We must be careful until the court establishes our status. When our attorney wrote to ask about the steps to take against Downs and Trice, we were advised to wait until we get a hearing concerning our status. At Dearborn Street Station, they refused to talk with us as union representatives, but would discuss with us as individuals. They offered to promote $625 to each employee there, was refused. They didn’t seem to understand (or maybe they did) that if we accepted it could constitute a virtual agreement to stop unionization of the Red Caps. We can’t stop now, with memberships pouring in from all over the country. Just today we received a check from Louisville, Kentucky for 25 members. The other day we received a check from Memphis, Tenn., and I am sending their charter (On July 8^th, the Chicago Local #10, received its international charter at a meeting at the Appomattox Club. It was reported here that New York central was paying dues toward its affiliation—New York Central Station has 435 Red Caps.)

 I was dining car waiter on the Canadian National Railroad, during’22,’23,’24, and ’25. They fired all Negroes in 1926. We had all joined the union in April 1926 and we got fired July 1926. The Negroes had gone in with the white waiters. I wrote to the Minister of Labor citing the Jay Treaty of 1791. We were told that Negroes were being discharged to make room for Canadian employees. We were all in the same union, but the whites didn’t fight against the discharge of Negroes, they took the jobs. Negroes were given parlor car jobs. I was so disgusted, I went to Boston to enter school. While there I spent my money foolishly before school opened, and was unable to attend.”

 The following is an excerpt from work done Sept. 14, 1937 by Robert Davis on The Negro in Organized Labor, Chicago Area, an interview with George Berry, an employee with Republic Steel Corp.

What follows is Mr. Berry’s words and of course, the words of Robert Davis.

 Mr. Berry was interviewed at his home , a six-room cottage in Lillydale, a community in the southern section of Chicago. Mr. Berry is of medium height and build and is dark browned skinned. He was rather cautious in answering the questions put to him and was noticeably reluctant to give out information.. He wished to give the appearance of having reached his conclusions by logical, impartial thinking. It was quite evident, however, that he had been thoroughly schooled as to the correct answers to give in defense of the company.

The interview follows in “Q” – “A” form.

Q. Mr. Berry, why was the strike called?

A. I don’t know why they went on strike. We were satisfied with everything; hours, wages and working conditions. They (the C.I.O*) said that they wanted a signed agreement with the company, but as far as I could see, that was no benefit. He heard about the strike two weeks before it was called. On Monday when the men were first supposed to go out, we waited around until the foreman came and told us that we could go, nothing would happen then.

Q. Had the foreman warned the men previously about going out?

A. No, they had merely said that we could do as we wished. The strike was called on Wednesday night and the loyal workers stayed in.

Q. The newspapers said production went on as usual. If a large number of workers walked out, how did they do this? Did they bring in new men from the outside?

A. No, they did not bring in any scabs. I would say that about half the men went out. The rest of us would work eight hours at our regular jobs and then work four hours at some other job. We got 17 hours (pay) for working 12. The men who stayed in could not be called scabs because they were on their own jobs. A scab is one who takes another’s job. (all this in a tone begging acceptance. No rationalization to cover up the four hours work at some job other than that usually performed by the worker.)

Q. Did you get the same rate of pay if the “extra” job you did called for a higher rate than your old job?

A. No, we would get the scale that job called for if it was higher, if it was lower we would get the scale paid for by our regular job.

Q. The newspapers reported that the furnaces were never allowed to go out.

A. That’s right. You see all of the furnaces are never in operation at once. We have more furnaces than are needed because they frequently burn out and must be torn down and rebuilt. When the strike was called No. 5 and No. 7, I believe were out.

Q. How long have you worked for Republic Steel?

A. Oh, off and on since ’22. I started as a laborer, then worked as such until ’25. I was made a foreman of pipe inspectors of Billet Filers in 1925, with 12 men under me. I kept that job for two years, then the depression came along and things got dull. I quit in 1927 and bought a cab and went in business for myself. The plant closed down entirely and did not open up until ’33. I went back in the plant in 1935 and got a job on the billet dock handling raw steel.

Q. Just what is your job and is it confined to Negro labor, I mean, do you have Whites doing the same thing you do?

A. Yes, Whites do the same thing, there is no discrimination at all, I am a hooker working with a crane. I hook steel for the crane to pick up and take off the hooks when it is let down. You see every billet has cracks and they must either be scarfed out or chipped before the billet is rerolled. There are about 18 hookers and they are all colored. The yard laborers are mixed, with Whites, colored, Mexicans and “”Pollocks.”

Q. What is meant by scarfing?

A. Scarfing is cutting with an acetylene torch.

Q. Do they have any Negro scarfers?

A. No, they are all white.

Q. Do any Negroes have supervisory jobs now?

A. I work in just one department and that is all I see. We don’t have any colored foremen in my department. Some Negroes do have some of the higher paid jobs.

Q. How do they qualify for these jobs? Are they apprentices first?

A. No, there are no apprentices, they just learn I guess.

Q. Wasn’t there something said about unsanitary conditions in the plant when the men were sleeping there?

A. Yes, they said that sleeping conditions were not up to sanitary conditions. I think it was a CIO trick, the CIO leaders working with the Mayor of the City. We were sleeping in a new warehouse which is big and roomy. It was plenty comfortable and had lots of windows. The CIO thought they could force us to come out if we had to quit sleeping at the plant, but the Republic was too smart for that, they moved in about 25 or 30 Pullman cars and we slept in them. (This triumphantly)

Q. Was there any discrimination shown? I mean were Negroes placed in separate cars?

A. No, we were assigned to the cars just as we lined up and the cars were filled the same way. There were white and colored in all cars.

Q. Did the men have to clean the cars themselves?

A. No, some of the men who stayed in were given that job and did nothing else.

Q. How was the food and where were you fed?

A. There is a plant cafeteria where we can ordinarily buy lunches, so when the strike came, they used that to feed us, the food was good and we had plenty.

Q. Are you a union member?

A. No, that’s the reason I didn’t come out. The union is no use except to get dues. It doesn’t help matters any. I think the CIO is foolish in striking all the time. Why I know how they jeer at us when we come out of the plant now. Course they don’t bother colored fellers as much as the Whites. I think they are more afraid of colored men. I only stayed in the plant 12 days of the three weeks the men were sleeping in the plant. They used to meddle me when I went in and out and call me all sorts of names, but when they saw I paid them no mind and wasn’t afraid and meant business they let me alone. They don’t bother me now.

(The Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters was founded in 1925, and became part of the Transportation Communications Union in 1978. The Red Caps were founded in 1937 and in 1940 changed its name to the United Transportation Service Employees Union. In 1942 it joined the CIO and today they are also part of the TCU.)